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October 13, 2004

A True HDTV HTPC

I am trying to setup a "True HDTV HTPC" with HTDV signal in from a satellite receiver (via component video) and HDTV output to a Sony Wega HDTV (via DVI). Every part of the project is ready to go, except for the video capture. I've looked far and wide for a capture card meeting the simple need for accepting component video input. At least I would have assumed it would be a simple thing with all the cool HDTV tuner cards out there... My question being, does anyone know of a capture card that will capture from component video source?
-- Gavin Ostlund

October 13, 2004 in Home Theater PC, TV & HDTV

Answers

I know of the Hauppauge WinTV-HD.

The snippet from the Hauppauge site says this:
"WinTV-HD decodes all ATSC Digital TV formats, 480i 480p, 720p and 1080i. After decoding, the digital TV picture is either scaled for display in a resizeable window on your PC screen, or displayed full screen in true High Definition."

Posted by: Steve at Oct 13, 2004 11:26:25 AM

There is currently no such(consumer)product.
The problem is converting the analog
samples from the component signals into
an MPEG2 transport stream. This is currently
too expensive for a consumer device. When single
chip MPEG2 encoders come out a capture device
of this type will probably spring up.

Posted by: VIctor Nowik at Oct 13, 2004 12:54:12 PM

Yeah, there is a huge difference between being able to tune in a pre-compressed ATSC (or QAM for digital cable) stream, and taking the raw firehose of uncompressed component video and compressing it. It is just too much for today's affordable encoders.

And since there is very little demand for such a thing - since it is a lower quality than saving the pre-encoded ATSC/QAM data - I don't know if we'll ever see many such cards. More likely someone would produce a satellite tuner card that lets you record the digital signal like a DirecTiVo does.

Posted by: MegaZone at Oct 13, 2004 3:13:24 PM

Thanks for the responses guys, had a feeling things were going to be like this, guess I'll be waiting around for a while, or with any luck there will come out a satellite tuner card (though I'm skeptical about it happening soon). I actually don't see it happening in the near future because of the ease with which it would allow people to steal the signal, even more so than people with card hacks. I imagine it would be much easier to hack any sort of protection scheme once the thing is already hooked up to the computer.

Posted by: Gavin Ostlund at Oct 14, 2004 7:18:17 AM

I looked a little more into that 'WinTV-HD' from Hauppauge, and happened to find something else that might fit the need. This card, the WinTV-NEXUS-s (http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_nexus.html ), is a digital satellite receiver for the PC however, their site is somewhat lacking in details of how exactly this would hook up to my sat, and how it would be able to decode the channels I've subscribed to. If anyone has any details or further information regarding this card, please let me know, thanks!

Posted by: Gavin Ostlund at Oct 14, 2004 4:10:51 PM

I have been on the same quest to find a video input card that supports HDTV with component video/RGB/VGA/DVI. I have not been able to find any. It really is frustrating, because I want to do this very badly. I am sure a suffeciently powerful computer could compress the video (dual athlon 64 maybe).

There is an alternative, which is to record from firewire. Some of the new digital cable boxes have firewire out and so do some satellite receivers (voom, I believe has it). But there is a big issue here: Firewire carries copy protection which prevents you from recording a lot of content.

You can checkout www.169time.com. They apparently have a product that can defeat the copy protection, and they sell firewire enabled satellite receivers.

-Steve

Posted by: Drbuzzo at Dec 2, 2004 7:01:36 PM

I'm trying to do the same thing with the voom box.Would it work to connect the output coax cable from the sat. box to the video card,and let the video card decode the h.d. signal?Then use a I.R. blaster to change the sat. box?

Posted by: gabriel perez at Dec 7, 2004 3:22:38 PM

I don't know if this will help you satellite owners.. But I came across some information about the receivers cable companies use.. The newer receiver have a Firewire port on the back of them and they will actually about the Transport Stream to a hard drive or a computer.. You just have to find the the software and drivers to do it.. I just got it working on my HTPC and it's AWESOME.. The only problem now is figuring out how to make it work like a PVR.. I can record shows and watch them later, But I can't record a show and play it at the same time.. I don't even know if it's possible yet, Recording a transport stream takes about 60% CPU and a massive amount of Hard drive time.. :-)

Rick

Posted by: Rick Stalker at Dec 15, 2004 10:42:45 PM

Fry's custom HTPC FM7750 claims to be your "true HTPC", but I haven't tried it. Has 2 DVI connectors and one of them seems to be input. Where does it go on a ATI RADEON X300 graphics don't know. Thinking of buying and reverse-engineering, but thought someone had already... Anyone?

Posted by: Andrey I. Savov at Jan 9, 2005 11:25:25 PM

Unfortionately you cannot get HDTV off of the coax-out from a voom box. The coax out just transmits the video in analog standard-defintion (downconverted) on channel 3 like your old vcr or cable box does. It's just there to allow for compatability with older TV's and VCR's with an RF input. Right now the best way to record hdtv is definately firewire.

There are just two problems: 1. some programs are encrypted over firewire and 2 many satellite providers don't support firewire output. Voom does not, which is too bad, because they have the most hdtv.

Most cable companies offer a firewire cable box if you ask for one. It might cost you an extra couple dollars a month, but it'd be worth it.

-Steve

Posted by: Stephen Packard at Jan 13, 2005 9:49:29 PM

http://www.cellarcinemas.com/cgi-bin/store/HD3.html

That will capture component video. Hope you can afford it though, as most places carry it for $795-895 and it's still special order. And it's almost useless without the additional $295 daughter DVI card. You could also try an SDI capture card used with a component>>SDI converter, but still close to a grand for both.

A less expensive card is the SweetSpot Video Processor from pluggedin. Unfortunately, even though this card has component inputs I *don't* think that it does HD, it only does 480i and 576i, so I don't think it is really an HD solution.

http://www.pluggedin.tv/sweetspot/

Posted by: David at Jan 22, 2005 2:32:08 PM

Found this capture device that accepts Component video input

http://www.adstech.com/products/API-752/intro/api752intro.asp?pid=API-752

Posted by: ladyfox at Jan 25, 2005 3:38:19 PM

The ADSTech unit linked to previosuly doesn't seem to do HDTV. The website says:

Capture Resolution:
NTSC: 720 x 480 @ 30 frames per second
PAL: 720 x 576 @ 25 frame per second

This is great for DVDs at 480p, but not HDTV.

Posted by: Bill at Feb 9, 2005 9:41:15 AM

Unfortunately I think we'll have the wait a while before such cards become affordable. Fortunately, China is slowly coming out with their own HDTV standards and it probably won't be that long afterwards before less expensive component capture cards become available. I predict that the first such affordable component capture cards will come from the far east, most likely "Made in Taiwan" or "Made in China".

At this time, you're looking at around $1500+ to $2000+ USD for a component capture card, and that's not counting the very powerful computer you'll likely have to run, as well as massive hard drive space. You can use DVB cards to directly download digital information streaming from a satellite, however, at least in North America, this can no longer be done as all HDTV signals are now Nagra2 encrypted and cannot be decoded.

Posted by: Satviewer2000 at Feb 19, 2005 11:49:26 PM

What are some of the tuner cards out there that support a firewire input signal in HD? I would perfer it to be capable of being connected to the computer via USB or maybe even a software solution using the computer's firewire input so it would also work with laptops. If I could find that, all I would have to find is a HDTV DirecTV receiver capable of outputing through a firewire port...

Posted by: Derron at Feb 23, 2005 11:08:12 AM

I having the same trouble finding a product to do what I need. This is the only card i have found that seems to be capable of taking an component feed and do realtime mpeg encoding to a pc at 1080i.

http://www.canopus.us/US/products/EDIUSNX_for_HDV/pt_EDIUSNX_for_HDV.asp

Its not cheap. HD Tivo starting to look like a good deal to me.
-G

Posted by: Grumby at Mar 16, 2005 4:09:32 PM

anybody tried a hack?

Posted by: Joe at Mar 23, 2005 2:45:41 PM

Does anyone know of a card that will decript Digital Cable and act as a reciever? I have found them for Satalite but not for cable.

Posted by: chris at Apr 13, 2005 11:43:03 AM

I am thinking of making a Windows Media Center, because the their New OS WMC 2005, and we have a Charter HDTV Reciever cable box, will there HDTV PVR card out there for me?

Posted by: Scott G. at Apr 18, 2005 7:14:24 PM

I am interested in doing pretty much what you guys are. It looks like everything is so pro now that it doesn't make much sense to purchase anything to do this HD component input thing. Why is the man always trying to prevent me from seing high def boobs!!!!!!

:) If anyone finds anything lemme know!

:) packhater@aol.com

Thanks!

Posted by: Todd at May 8, 2005 9:43:11 AM

Can any one give me some advice on the best hardware out there to build a htpc. And if I have hdtv cable, is there any way that i can set up a hdtv card to record from the cable box to my hard drive? I noticed there are some QAM cable cards out there, but they will not allow for encrypted cable to be viewed.Is there any cards in the future that will allow me to view all my cable channels? Also will Win MCE prevent me from copying dvd movies? Thanks

Posted by: Josh A at May 22, 2005 12:18:18 PM

So someone please explain this for me.....

This thread has demonstrated that there is not currently a consumer solution for Componant input into your pc. I am still confused about what is possible in using firewire from the cable box into the pc though. Would I simply be able to view Live HD via the TV app I'm running (Such as SageTV, WinTV, etc...)? In recording/decoding HD, system resources are certainly depleted. Is there no PCI solution which incorporates an onboard decoder, similar to the ones found in non-HD TV cards, but in this case it would be able to record Live HDTV, but not use of many system resources?

Where else can I read up on receiving channels via firewire? When doing this, do you even need a PCTV card at all?

TIA

Posted by: Matt at Jul 24, 2005 12:24:21 PM

Hello Everyone,
Try this card for hd input:DigiREC-HD
http://www.caloptic.com

Post feedback on this if you tried it, thanks.

Posted by: Mr. Ed at Aug 16, 2005 10:31:40 AM

Hello Everyone,
Try this card for hd input:DigiREC-HD
http://www.caloptic.com

Post feedback on this if you tried it, thanks.

Posted by: Mr. Ed at Aug 16, 2005 10:35:20 AM

This card looks promising:

http://www.pixelmagicsystems.com/products/pdi/pdi_deluxe.htm

It only does standard resolutions right now, hopefully they will soon release something capable of 720p and higher

Posted by: Michael Kantor at Aug 16, 2005 6:23:30 PM

That caloptic card is only capable of OTA HD. So, is there a converter that will take a DVI or Component signal and converts it to a coaxial OTA style signal? Has anyone tried something like that?

Posted by: Richard at Aug 30, 2005 11:29:01 AM

For all you that are new to this:

+ Uncompressed HD video is between 82 and 124 MegaBytes/second (MBps) of data.

+ Compressed HD video varies, but generally isn't more than the 19.2 MegaBits/second (Mbps) MPEG-2 used for Over The Air (OTA) transmission. That's less than 2.5 MBps.

+ MPEG (1, 2, or 4) video compression is considerably more difficult than decompression (this is known as asymetrical compression, as opposed to JPEG, which takes about the same for compression and decompression and is known as symetrical).

+ Capturing compressed HD stream, if you can gain access to it (i.e. they aren't encrypted and are exported in some way), is very easy. DVHS decks, as well as hard drive recording is available. All OTA broadcasts can be recorded. Cable generally encrypts their streams, except for the rebroadcasts of the local OTA stations. All satellite broadcasts appear to be encrypted.

+ Capturing uncompressed HD is very difficult. Without compression, you must capture at ridiculous data rates (see above), meaning you must have massive storage that is extremely fast. For this only professional devices are available, at professional prices. W-VHS decks can capture uncompressed HD in the analog domain, but they are also very expensive.

+ Capturing uncompressed HD and compressing it before storing it is also very difficult. Storage requirements and speed are lower, but real time compression is difficult (remember that most PCs have trouble decoding HD in real time, which as mentioned above, is much easier than encoding).

MPEG-2 versions of these are used by every TV station in the country, but that's still a small market, so the cost of these encoders is still very high.

MPEG-4 versions are literally arriving now, must be more powerful (MPEG-4 compression is more difficult than MPEG-2 compression), and as a result much more expensive.

+ Going forward, most analog outputs (component) will not be HD and the digital outputs (DVI, HDMI) will be encrypted, specifically to keep anyone from using the above-mentioned encoders when/if they come down in price. This means HD-DVD/Blu-Ray initially, followed by cable and satellite boxes.

The side effect is that those with older analog-input TVs or those without the encryption (HDCP) support on their digital inputs will be S.O.L.

This also means that the public will be at the mercy of the equipment manufactures (who are being manipulated by Hollywood) as to if and under what circumstances we will be able to record any HD programming.

Posted by: Xesdeeni at Aug 30, 2005 2:26:26 PM

You guys are forgetting one thing. You don't have to buy this crap with all these controlling and dictating encryption schemes. Secondly, you don't have to buy (read VOTE IN FAVOR) this stuff like an ox to the slaughter when they do start throwing it in the dreadful encryption cage.

Posted by: skwhirl at Sep 2, 2005 7:52:14 AM

So am I to understand, that there is no video card that will capture and record DirecTV HDTV, using windows media center software?

Posted by: mike at Sep 4, 2005 11:21:33 AM

No, DirecTV has to be the most controlling and vicious about their signal. They are the company that sent out threat letters to innocent people. They aren't going to let you record ANYTHING that they have control over.

http://www.directvdefense.org/

Posted by: skwhirl at Sep 5, 2005 11:04:04 AM

Before you ask, I would recommend going with the local cable system. Most cable systems gladly switch off the 5C encryption for 'compatibility' purposes, and you can capture the actual HDTV over the firewire. The sad thing about this is people will start abusing it and putting it on the internet like dumb-bunnys, causing the MPAA and everyone to have a right to petition the government for more 'preventive' control like mandatory 5C...

Record for personal use, but don't distribute or pirate, please!!!!

Posted by: skwhirl at Sep 5, 2005 11:15:22 AM

Do a resarch on Philips DFR9000/01

I think it will help you

Posted by: Jean Pierre at Sep 11, 2005 10:26:00 AM

I found this product. Seems like its a decent product, but it is not Firewire and I have never heard of the company.

http://www.converters.tv/products/converters/other_products/267.html

Posted by: Patrick at Oct 12, 2005 4:09:21 PM

Let assume you are able to get/capture HDTV signal (10GB/hrs)
What are you going to do with it? Save it in HDD, burn it to DVD to keep? But consider this:
- Store to HDD: Too damn much space needed.
- Store to DVD: There is no DVD player allows you to play HD stream, righ off the DVD!!!

Have you ever try to capture from S-Video port when view HDTV program? The capture video quality is excellent, provided the Video Bitstream is VBR and Max bit rate is 9500bps

With this set up, the captured MPEG2 stream is better than commercial DVD MPEG2 stream, and it's compatible with DVD format. It means you can burn to DVD, which will play on regular DVD player

I have use DigiREC-HD from CalOptic. One new feature just added
S-Video port is schedulable, it mean you can program the card recording time matching with your Satellite programs.

Addition to DigiREC-HD, CalOptic just release a USB2.0 HDTV with similar function as DigiREC-HD.

Posted by: FireWire at Oct 14, 2005 4:55:06 PM

I have an RCA(sorry) HD Direct TV receiver (yeah I know) - but it works ok. Anyway, it has VGA out to the matching RCA TV (that way the TV works as an SVGA 800x600 computer monitor - does ok to). I am going to take this VGA out on the set top box, feed it into a VGA to Component converter then feed the Component to an ADS Tech Pyro A/V Link. So while it won't stay digital from cradle to grave, I will be able to capture all my DirecTV content and the quality should be fairly decent, at least better than a standard S-Video NTSC signal is going to provide.

Tell me what you think or if you have any other suggestions.

Posted by: XManSV at Nov 26, 2005 1:46:10 PM

OK I have read this stuf and I am a tech junkie but not an expert. I have Time Warner Cable TV and I just installed Media Center 2005 on my computer (which doesn't have a TV tuner card. What do I need to record HD programming on my computer with Media Center. I appriciate the help believe me.

Posted by: Jeff at Nov 28, 2005 2:23:23 PM

Well there are several off the air capture cards. ATI makes one and if you just read back through the thread you will find references to others. That is if you want HD off the broadcast network stuff. I don't, I want to get DirecTV. If that or something similar like HD from cable is what you want then you are asking the same question as me. The best solution I have come up with I have listed in the post just above yours.

Best luck - let me know if you have any other ideas.

Posted by: XManSv at Nov 29, 2005 10:42:31 PM

I found some component video capture cards but the prices are pretty high...

http://www.promax.com/Products/Cat/Capture%20Cards

Posted by: Bruce Satow at Dec 1, 2005 4:47:42 PM

DirecTV and Microsoft make love connection

1/5/2006 9:40:41 PM, by Eric Bangeman

Las Vegas — At last night's keynote, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates outlined his vision for the connected home of the future. As expected, Windows Media Center is one of the centerpieces of the software giant's plans. A new partnership between Microsoft and DirecTV alluded to last night by Gates and confirmed tonight at DirecTV's press conference here at CES is good news for owners of Windows Media Center PCs.

DirecTV and Microsoft have signed a long-term agreement that will tightly integrate DirecTV's programming with PCs running Windows Media Center edition, the Xbox 360, and some portable devices. Most significantly, HTPC owners will be able to forego usage of DirecTV set-top boxes, as their PCs will be able to function as a DirecTV receiver. This includes all of DirecTV's high-definition content, which makes this the first time DirecTV's HD programming will be available without using a receiver.

Here's what the partnership means: Xbox 360 owners will be able to access DirecTV programming from their console. That's another step in the direction of making Microsoft's new console a home entertainment hub in addition to a place to play games. Using a DirecTV set-top box, subscribers will be able to view images, watch movies, and listen to music on their TVs, streamed from their PCs. That's similar to what Verizon has planned for its FiOS customers.

Along with that, HTPCs will be able to be record DirecTV programming and transfer it to supported portable devices. In addition, the DirecTV set-top boxes will include a USB port so that owners of some devices (those carrying Microsoft's new PlaysForSure designation) will be able to download recorded content directly to their portable video players.

It's a big move for Microsoft, as it gives Windows Media Center Edition and the upcoming Vista—which will have MCE functionality rolled into some of its seven different versions—full HD support. Currently, Windows MCE is limited to over-the-air HD content, meaning that subscribers to DirecTV, Comcast, and other services offering HD can't reap the full benefit of the programming with an HTPC.

Connecting your TV and PC is a big theme at CES this year. Intel has a significant portion of its exhibit area devoted to Viiv and prototype Viiv-enabled set-top boxes. Microsoft has a gigantic Vista display and is preaching the media center gospel. Major PC manufacturers such as HP, Sony, Toshiba, Gateway, and others all have HTPCs featured prominently in their exhibits. Getting DirecTV to play nice with Windows may go a long way towards bringing the HTPC into the mainstream.

Posted by: Caldwell at Feb 1, 2006 7:35:51 PM

I was looking for the same. My HD cable box only has a USB-out port, not even firewire, so unless I feel like writer device drivers not much luck there. Closest I get is capturing the S-Video out for cabl. My Fusion HDTV 3 gold does great for over-the-air HDTV via cable, but the analog stations are horrible. Looks like the Edius NX with HD expansion is closest solution, but I don't have 64-bit PCI slots, nor a couple of thousand dollars. As Patrick notes, what are we going to do with it? Until Blu-Ray/DVD-HD comes out, I'm not archiving it, but at about $80 for a 250G disk these days, it will be a while yet before I have to.

Posted by: Terrabyte Tim at Feb 6, 2006 4:51:23 PM

get the diretv hd tivo before the $200 rebate is up!! you can add another hard drive and get 2x the storage... It records in Dolby Digital!! also, just use your computer for SD recording and save to dvd...look for a good s-video hardware VBR mpeg2 capture card with dolby digital input. also if you use s-video out on the hd diretivo setup for widescreen and record to dvd with a highbitrate or good VBR you will be stuned at the quality!! htpc's can do DVD's just about as good as the best DVD player out there (denon)

Posted by: the vid kid at Feb 6, 2006 8:03:39 PM

Hi. I've just got a vBox Cats Eye USB HDTV Tuner and I've noticed that it doesn't do QAM and I've read from previous posts saying that set-top boxes will convert into analog for compatibility. I have a firewall port in my laptop but I don't plan to record HD videos... I've a bad experience and I've made a hasty purchase without doing a lot of research...

As far as I've done a research, a lot of HDTV tuners only have RF input and composite/s-video input and no component video input, which means, I have to have a 26"+ HDTV that I can't afford right now... :(

C'mon manufactures...it's time you develope HDTV tuners with component inputs... We wanted to plug-in-watch as we can already do it with an NTSC tuner like ATI TV-Wonder USB 2.0...

I understand that HDTV is brand new as I'm aware of that...

Posted by: Grayson Peddie at Feb 9, 2006 12:29:48 PM

A California company called AJA makes component video capture cards for PCI-X and PCI-Express. Not a cheap option, but the best single card solution I've found. See their web site at www.aja.com/products.

Mark

Posted by: Mark Hibben at Feb 25, 2006 1:02:05 PM

Rather than finding HDTV tuners that will decrypt a cable signal, has anybody found any DVR boxes in which recorded files could be transfered off of? I'd be ok with paying the extra $5 for a box from my cable company if it could record 3 channels at a time and saved me Processor resources.

Posted by: Dylan at Mar 12, 2006 11:27:55 AM

If I can plug my DTV MPEG-4 box composite out into my TV and get a picture, why can't I plug it into a video card and get the same and capture it? I realize it won't be in HD format because of using composite but it seems to me that would at least allow me to record programs and I can use the functionality of ther DTV guide to change channels as necessary. If there were a capture card with HDMI or component inputs, then we could capture it in HD but as far as I know, for the moment, that doesn't exist. So is this feasible or not?

Posted by: Keefer Zeller at Mar 16, 2006 11:53:11 AM

Hey guys,

Im wanting to record footage from my xbox 360 onto my pc. It uses a 720p signal via component cables. What card can I use to capture my HD signal in 720p on my pc? Any ideas?

-tavish

Posted by: tavish at Apr 14, 2006 9:17:14 PM

Hi all,
I just want to use DScaler to get and pass the best quality picture to my sony 1271 crt projector. I don't care about recording at all. I have a wintv composite input only, lame. instead of getting a svideo input tv card, i was hoping to find something to take the component output from my hd cable receiver. Am i hearing correctly that there still is nothing $500 or less to do this? Is the SweetSpot component in tv card worthless b/c it only handles 480? Am i stuck with svideo from my receiver? I think dscaler is great and don't want to ditch it.
Will svideo improve things much, and what is the best value dscaler compatible svido input pci card?
thanks a lot!
-neil

Posted by: neil at Jul 4, 2006 2:57:05 PM

I saw this forum and thought I'd ask and say a couple things. I am looking-into getting myself set-up with HDTV (and regular analog cable TV) on my computer. I want to set it up that my computer has all the standard inputs for HDTV as you'd find on a HD-ready projection TV. I had an HDTV-ready proj. TV and I sold it. In my efforts to create the PC-TV that will replace my former proj. TV I can tell you I've had no luck in finding any HDTV card that will give me such inputs that I can use my computer like I used my HD ready proj. TV. My research reveals that only OTA (coaxial cable) input is accepted by these cards. But maybe I'm not looking in the right places? Now I've read through this forum and my spirits are sinking. May we conclude at this point that no manufacturer of HD pci cards makes a card that simply makes a computer work like an HDTV-ready monitor? You know, with Y-Pr-Pb inputs, as that's what the Charter Cable box (and others) have (as outputs). From what I gather many of you in this forum want even more than what I want; to use your computer itself as a decoder for cable and satellite, and even more functionality than that. Of course, this leads back to the matter of inputs - being component video or something that we might expect to find on the back of an HD-ready monitor. Again, I've found no pci card that inputs anything other than coaxial cable for OTA HD broadcast -- not what I'm interested in. But maybe I've overlooked something? Or do I have it pretty much correct? That there is no low cost way to make my computer work like my HD-ready TV did, and so I'm just out of luck?

Posted by: Bill Graham at Aug 20, 2006 1:00:34 AM

Quote:
--------------------------------------------
Hey guys,

Im wanting to record footage from my xbox 360 onto my pc. It uses a 720p signal via component cables. What card can I use to capture my HD signal in 720p on my pc? Any ideas?

-tavish
--------------------------------------------

I'm with Tavish and would like to record video footage at the highest quality possible. Any suggestions yet for around $500

Posted by: John at Nov 26, 2006 12:15:44 PM

This whole situation is now moved from a nuance to annoying and inching closer to unbearable. Why is DirecTV, Charter, and Microsoft not announcing when they will be releasing there 1st PCI cable/satellite card!!!

Is this release that super secret???? I mean it’s not difficult to design and develop a high quality device!! Most of the technology required is standardized.

Dammm you DirecTV ......Damm you Microsoft…… and yes Damm you Charter, I tired of viewing and recording SD off my DirectTV HD reciever. We what our HTPC's to be directly integrated with your networks.

Someone needs to start some sort of campaign and pursue these guys on developing a consumer product.

My last words: “If you build an integrated HD Satellite / Cable card for HTPC we the consumer will buy. So, stop making us wait.

EOL

Posted by: Philip Thomas at Nov 27, 2006 5:52:05 PM

You guys crack me up

----------------------------
LISTEN UP AND LISTEN GOOD
----------------------------

1) most Consumer grade TV Capture cards on the market today will only record 480i which is basic television over Coax (analog Cable) or Composite (SVideo/RCA connector from a Cable/Satellite Box)

2) There are Several HDTV Tunders out there, half or less work natively with Windows XP MCE. They come in 3 types and support various open standards.
Types:
PCI - Card installed in your machine (some moving to PCIe x1)
USB 2 - External Device connected to the PC with USB 2.0
Network - I forget the name but there is 1 MFG out there with a Network based product where you view the stream with VNC and use a small program to change channels - XP MCE support was supposed to be added, not sure if it ever did.

Now these HDTV Tuners will NOT do Satellite Dish/DirecTV. They are meant to decode only 3 things.
1) Clear QAM - aka Unencrypted QAM streams from your cable provider. This is a compressed digital stream most cable providers use. If you want this, make sure your card does QAM256 and not just QAM64 as 256 is gaining ground steadily and will read 64, but not the other way around. This will get you channels like your local stations in HD, Discovery, etc. You will NOT be able to get HBO HD or PayPerView as this type of content is sent over Encrypted QAM.

2) ATSC = Antenna on the roof (or in the attic if you have a strong signal) that is picking up digital broadcasts from your local TV Stations. You absolutely must have an ATSC Antenna and good signal strength from the local broadcast towers (In Los Angeles area most of them are on Mt Wilson by Burbank)

3) NTSC aka regular old Analog TV - this is your 2-99 channels and are NOT Digital. The funny thing here is some cards wont do Analog and will ONLY do digital (keeps the cost down).

now you also need to know that if you buy a card that does HDTV and is also XP MCE compatible, XP MCE requires at least 1 Analog Tuner in the machine before you can go Digital. There is a software hack out there that I forget the name of that makes it think you have an Analog tuner which isnt being used without actually having to add a card.

As for those of you stuck on Satellite - Aside from the recent post by Bruce Satow up above relating to the CES Announcements by MS and DirecTV, right now in the USA there is no way to talk to your Satellite Dish using your PC DIRECTLY. You basically have to use a Sat Receiver and then either Analog Inputs into a Analog TV Tuner card and an IR Blaster to control the Sat Box -OR- possibly the FireWire method, but as far as I know, there is no easy way to make the firewire method work with XP MCE seamlessly.

The best part of all this - you can do Satellite tunining in MANY countries in Europe right now with dirt cheap cards. Not sure if they do HD or not. But someone earlier posted a link to a Hauppauge card and said they couldnt find much detail on it. Thats because its meant for the European market and not the US. No Regulation of the Satellite companies along with Free Enterprise means Dish and DirecTV are stingy with the goods.

So, My reccomendation as of right now.

1) If your using Digital Cable - do some research on XP MCE/Vista compatible HDTV Tuners (PCI/USB/NETWORK) but dont buy anything for at least a month or two. There is supposed to be an influx of new products releasing with the official Vista release (when the HPs and Dells start shipping Vista, I know its already available on MSDN and technet). When your ready, get a device that at the very minimum does QAM256 Unencrypted. The better devices however should include a Cable Card slot (or 2 for dual tuner) so you can also record/decode HBO HD and PPV and stuff. ATI has a device that should be out with Vista that does this over USB2.

2) If your using Satellite (in the US) - Your screwed, so get over it. Stack a Cable box with a WinTV500MCE for some Analog recording fun and just wait to see what DirecTV/MS finally comes up with based on that CES launch. You really want HD? Make sure your Sat Receiver/PVR does this out of the box and dont bother with the PC side (for now). See #3 for local channel option. Or move to Europe :P

3) You can always add a card/device that does ATSC tunning, slap an Antenna on the roof and hope for a good signal. This can be merged into Media Center and BeyondTV and stuff fairly easily, but your only gonna get locals. No Discovery HD or other "Cable Channels" and certainly no HBO HD.

Hope that helps clear some stuff up. Happy Viewing

PS: I learned pretty much ALL this stuff from AVSForum - which I realize may be a competitor to PVRBlog, but is still a wealth of good information from people with everything from a 32" Sony to people with 10s of Thousands of dollars invested in a true Home Theatre. I also heavily investigated the Satellite side because I am stuck with Time Warner (formerly Adelphia) and in my area the Service and Prices absolutely SUCK, but if I go Satellite, its harder to play with all this fun technology stuff and getting HD into my PC is next to impossible. I'm also about a block out of range for DSL, so I have to stick it out with the Cable Modem right now anyway, so I may as well use their TV services too.

Posted by: Casper42 at Jan 19, 2007 1:35:55 AM

I guess for all us HD subscribers, be it HD cable or HD satellite, we're all on the same hunt. I've been on this hunt for close to a year now, only to get more and more frustrated as I see all of you out there are as well.....

I myself have HD cable, and my cable STB has firewire output on it, and I haven't heard much talk of this firewire option. but that it is in fact an option, somewhat anyway....

Won't using the right drivers and software allow for the firewire connection (card) to receive the full HD signal from the STB via component/DVI? In full quality of 1080i? If not, then what is that connection capable of doing for us?

I only ask about the firewire option because my STB has that output capability, and of course I'd rather buy a $30 firewire PCI card then a $900 component/DVI capture card, which of course we would all like to buy for around $100-$300 rather then $900.....but I want to make sure the firewire option is somewhat attractive, in that it will receive the HD signal from the HD cable STB, in full 1080i quality....

any and all responses are appreciated

good luck to us all!!!

Posted by: Jon at Jan 24, 2007 9:37:15 AM

ANother thing that I don't understand is, the HD tuner in the back of any HDTV that you buy, it receives the HD signal from the STB and displays it on the HDTV screen.....well why is not as simple as that to have those exact same HD tuner functions applied to a PC?

In other words (with the right interface) why can't we use the same HD tuner on the back of our HDTV's and use them in our PC's? I obviously don't mean taking the HD tuner out of our TV's and trying that, I just mean using the same principles but for a PC?

then simply record what is then displayed on our PC monitor.....

basically what I'm saying is, the device in the back of our HDTV's that has the component, composite, S-Video, and DVI inputs that we plug our STB's into (either with DVI or component for HD), why can't we take the same device and hook it up to our PC's??
Unless those devices in the back of our HDTV"s are not much different then these $1000 capture cards that are on the market now??
which would therefore bring us back to where we are.....

Any thoughts on that for all of you??

Posted by: Jon at Jan 24, 2007 1:36:41 PM

Jons question/comment about is my thoughts exactly. If a HDTV can take the signal coming out of a DirecTV HD-DVR box, why can't it be re-routed to a PC with a PC card doing the same thing as the HDTV to display it?

Maybe that BlackMagic PCIe card with HDMI in/out is the answer...?

Posted by: Tom M. at Jan 31, 2007 6:20:35 AM

I hate to tell you, but for now, you guys are all out of luck. Ever hear of the broadcast flag? It will keep you from recording your HD content to an unauthorized device.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_flag
http://www.publicknowledge.org/issues/broadcastflag
action.eff.org/broadcastflag
As far as I know, no capture cards made after July 1 2005 support anything but the free over the air HD signals. Even the BlackMmagic card has a note about it's inability to record copyprotected HD media. Write your congressmen if you don't like where the FCC is headed.

Posted by: jax at Mar 13, 2007 11:13:51 AM

have you guys looked at blackmagic intesity hdmi capture card? price seems good and it states it will record in 1080i not 1080p though.

Posted by: Hamed at Mar 17, 2007 10:07:32 PM

Since no NTSC tuners (for PCs) can handle digital or hi-def formats (as through Comcast), is it possible to have hi-def signals go from the cable box, to a PC running Vista or Media Center, and then to the display using DVI for all connections? There's no input on a PC using DVI or HDMI, is there?

Posted by: Scott T. at Mar 26, 2007 12:44:43 PM

If I understand the question it seems that the fellow wants to make a computer display the HDTV signal that Charter Cable sends him via their cable and magic box, which outputs component video (and possibly HDMI). Also, he wants to record shows in HDTV?

First, on the display issue:
I looke at a lot of HDTV tuner cards for computers, and none of them seemed to accept a component video input. I have not even seen any video cards that take a component video input, let alone process and display it as HDTV. However, if the Charter Cable HDTV box (I once had one, but only used it with component video inputs on my HDTV ready TV) has an HDMI output one of those better video cards might input that and process it, just like it was an HDTV game signal. If Charter's box only outputs component video then maybe the Neoya X2VGA 2 interface might allow connectivity between the cable box and the PC for display as an HDTV image on your PC monitor? (This was suggested to me about a year ago, as I wanted to watch HDTV on my PC too. I never did get the device to try it out.)

Now, the recording issue:
I don't know the first thing about video capture, so I will say nothing, except that if once you have a signal that can be displayed as a beautiful crisp HDTV image it would seem that you could capture that -- though an HDTV video image is a lot of information to be recording. Maybe only a high priced capture card would do?

I sure hope someone who knows something about this can comment on what I said here.

Posted by: Billy at Mar 29, 2007 1:53:08 AM

Has anyone looked into using a Slingbox Pro for this?

http://ask.pvrblog.com/2004/10/a_true_hdtv_htp.html

Posted by: Alex at Apr 1, 2007 8:02:06 AM

Sorry wrong link above:

http://us.slingmedia.com/page/slingboxpro.html

Posted by: Alex at Apr 1, 2007 8:03:26 AM

Jon and Jon are asking:
the device in the back of our HDTV's that has the component, composite, S-Video, and DVI inputs that we plug our STB's into (either with DVI or component for HD), why can't we take the same device and hook it up to our PC's??
-----
Because if you are using component/dvi/hdmi (composite/s-video aren't HD) then you are bypassing your TV's HD tuner. The STB does the tuning.

If you have a STB/HD decoder that outputs the HD signal over coaxial then what you ask should be possible.

If you use a coaxial to hook up your STB and TV and simply change channels on your tv and its still true high def then I would think any of the PC HD decoder cards would work.

But I don't think those boxes exist any more. Most STBs output the high def on component/dvi/hdmi. When you hook this into your TV you are not using the TV HD tuner at all, its simply a video signal.

So short story is, if you change HD channels on your TV you can probably do as you ask. If you have to change channels on your STB then you need some other capture method.

Posted by: Kevin at Apr 4, 2007 8:07:29 AM

Ok, I was browsing along. Heres a question for all you who are smarter than me.

If we don't have an issue using our boxes (cable/satellite recivers) and they output with hdmi to out TV, then our TV is acting just like a monitor (with a video/audio connection). So my question is could we then use something like this
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
to output the data from the satellite or cable box to the PC then conntect the PC to the TV (hdmi/component / dvi)?

Just a thought.

Posted by: DeadDrunk at May 14, 2007 11:45:51 AM

The intensity card is not HDCP compatible. It's designed to capture from private recording devices (video cams etc).

You could use an HD-SDI converter to connect the analog HD out (component cable) output from a digital box to the intensity card and capture video that way. I've seen a few people claim to have this working, with Decklink cards - not sure about the Intensity card in particular.

So right now, component capture is the way to go to capture HD from set top boxes - but it'll be 1000$ or more. Unless you have a Motorola DCT2000 box with the serial port enabled, in which case look at Nextcom wireless' external addon or DCT62xx series Motorola boxes that still have Firewire enabled (in which case there's a hack out that allows you to output from the box to the firewire port on the PC).

Posted by: Nada at May 21, 2007 5:48:28 PM

For whoever suggested Slingbox - Slingbox's HD stream downconverts the video to standard def while keeping the aspect ratio, so it is not a viable solution.

Posted by: Nada at May 21, 2007 5:51:05 PM

For the Xbox 360's.... Just get a standard capture card(one that supports svid, and buy the S-vid cable for the system... Capture that... I've been trolling for a year and some now, and ther is no cost effective solution. With the newly bought cable you can capture the svid on the cpu, and still use the anolgue(yellow) to display on yer tv.... No lag capturing, and less cpu cycle to crunch(capture with no display((VDUB)). Remember its just video game play...480i is what we're stuck with.
As fer the sattalite guys, hey yer hosed... They thought this out a long time ago... the AJA(further up in the thread) way is the only way, and damn is it expensive, plus you have a coded signal to defeat...

Posted by: random fires at May 22, 2007 6:51:07 AM

Sat. boxes will work with the Nextcom Wireless device in some cases, so it's already possible to capture HD off sat depending on your provider.

Posted by: Nada at May 22, 2007 4:55:34 PM

This should do the trick. Bad thing is that you can only buy them in new PC's. But at least we finally have real HD on our PC / PVR.
http://www.engadget.com/tag/cablecard

Posted by: Olaf at Jun 21, 2007 8:41:19 PM

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